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Old 09-12-2012, 02:00 PM
rumblefish72 rumblefish72 is offline
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Default sparkplug wire routing across distributor cap

Is it OK to run a sparkplug wire across the top of a HEI style cap? The #1 wire on my 440 Mopar has to run all the way around to the other side of the cap and the same thing happens with the #6 wire. I'd like to run these wires across the top of the cap between the other wires rather that running it in a big loop arond the body of the distributor. Would this cause any (crossfire) issue?
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:28 PM
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msdtech1955 msdtech1955 is offline
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yes, but i would route that magnetic pickup cable down the driver side of the motor( away from coil and 12 volt leads)
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:25 AM
rumblefish72 rumblefish72 is offline
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The dist trigger wires, alternator +12v and coil wires all run along the top of where the intake manifold meets the passenger's side valve cover. There are three individually wrapped looms. So you're saying to extend that trigger lead so I can run it from the Digital6+ (rubber mounted on the upper firewall, passenger side) across the back of the motor, to the driver's side, along the manifold meets valve cover nook, across the front of the valley cover, under the coil and up into the Pro-Billet Distributor? The only wire(s) on that side are the nitrous solenoid trigger wire and this is seldom in use.

I just want to completely understand how I'm doing this before I order another PN 8860 harness so I can extend the trigger leads all this way. I'm probably adding another 20" to the length of the trigger leads but it does get them away from possible interference sources.

Thanks for the advise and any future comments ...
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:35 AM
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msdtech1955 msdtech1955 is offline
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yes, we need to -re-route themagnetic trigger leads.
p/m me a address and i'll send you another 8860.

moparengineweb.JPG

double click pic..
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:25 AM
rumblefish72 rumblefish72 is offline
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WOW - thanks for really taking the time to examine my setup.

I'm at work now so I can't do a proper reply ... but here's what I did last night (see pic). The Coil +/- leads were long. Thank goodness I didn't get a chance to shorten them yet. The alternator lead was also long and it comes from the firewall on the driver's side. I was able to easily reroute both of those leads (and water temp sensor) to under the manifold. That left the trigger wires alone on the original route. I started this engine up for the first time on Labor Day and it ran without issue so I figure the trigger wire routing was OK but I agree that the reroute for noise is an improvement. And, I noticed that MSD offered a replacement cap with a hold-down plate. I figured that that was a solution that I'd want so I mailordered it (MSD-84313). Before I rerouted the wires across the cap (which started this thread), I figured I better check to see how the hold-down bolted to the dist cap. It's much harder to make a wire longer than it is to shorten one Of course, the hold-down bolts to the cap right where I proposed to reroute the #1 and #6 wires so my post question is no longer valid. I installed the cap and left the #1 and #6 with the loop around and I think it's all an optimized solution. I did all this rework with the benefit of keeping the trigger wires short, away from noise sources and not having to break out my soldering gun. Thanks for the offer on the 8860 harness ... I already have one on the way but won't need it for this setup. I plan to go back to a vacuume advance distributor over the winter so I can solder that harness to the mag trigger leads on the other dist. Once I have this all sorted out and running great, I plan to swap to a DIS-4 and start building up all over again.

You made several other salient comments that I need to process. I'll sort these out and send another reply over the weekend. Oh - and I attached a pic of the car. It's been off the road since 2001 while my kids were priority #1 but I'm finally getting around to finishing up the new engine so I can start driving it again!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:42 AM
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msdtech1955 msdtech1955 is offline
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Quote:
I plan to swap to a DIS-4 and start building up all over again.
why ?

also, p/m me an address..and i'll send you some wire and new boots.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:02 PM
rumblefish72 rumblefish72 is offline
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PM sent ...

Why DIS-4? I want to buid a high compression E85 EFI engine using the Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold (90MM throttle body that hangs off the front). I want to reclaim that prime real estate on the front of the engine and run intake airway plumbing through there (intercooler for an ATI Procharger?). The dist has to go. Besides - when was the last time you saw mechanical dist on a new car. I like to adapt new technology to these old engines. Everyone has a 440 or a Hemi ... but when people see no distributor and wasted spark or COP, they scratch their heads and ask how you did that. I'm thinking that the progression is EIDS-8 with 36-1 triggerwheel and MegaJolt ... I've started collecting parts and figuring out thow to mount the trigger wheel. I'll need some coil selection help and discuss sparkplugs on that when I'm ready. From there, the next move is to DIS-4 for something with eough energy to not blow out the spark under heavy nitrous load or boost. When you mentioned running a ground wire from one head to the other, I immediately thought of wasted spark and that extra ground wire was part of the EDIS plan once I figured out that the twin tower coil fires two spark plugs at once and the ground path between the heads is really part of the spark circuit.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here ... I really appreciate the help on getting this current setup optimized. And will respond one-by-one to the comments you drew into my picture. At lunch, I discussed the trigger wire noise with the automotive techs that I see every Friday (they sit booth over from my party at the restaurant) ... I told them I was discussing my wiring with MSD Techs and led into the rewire and they all jumped to trigger wire noise before I mentioned that that was the goal. Everyone but me was shaking their heads "yes" to mag trigger wire noise = VERY BAD so I guess I should have been more concerned. I'm from the dual-points generation so I have lots to catch up on ... Anyway, that wire is very isolated now so noise won't be an issue.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:25 PM
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msdtech1955 msdtech1955 is offline
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Quote:
is EIDS-8 with 36-1 triggerwheel and MegaJolt
will not work firing 8 single coils....onlt 2 ( 4 tower ford coils)

http://www.msdignition.com/forum/sho...t=18061&page=2

http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtop...c6009a7f6e6b68

if thats what you want to do ..with 8 single coils...
then look at a big stuff.

Quote:
Everyone but me was shaking their heads "yes" to mag trigger wire noise = VERY BAD so I guess I should have been more concerned. I'm from the dual-points generation so I have lots to catch up on ... Anyway, that wire is very isolated now so noise won't be an issue.
no problem.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:11 PM
rumblefish72 rumblefish72 is offline
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OK - responses to your comments inserted into my picture ... I'll start at the top and work clockwise.

Q: What are these two leads going to?
A: The top lead (with your arrow) is +12volt lead that goes direct to the MSD Digital 6+. I spliced a fusible link into it since there is no other fuse between this and the battery. The stud that it's bolted to on the starter relay has a lead that comes from the big +12 volt lug on the engine starter. The battery is in the tunk ... the 0 gauge battery positive cable goes to one side of the starter. There's a lead tied into that starter lug that goes up to the starter relay. The Digital 6+ hot is bolted to this same stud so it sees the battery. I have no other wires coming from the battery up to the engine compartment besides this one so this was the best I could do for a hot connection to the battery. The negaitive side is jumped to the frame back in the truck. The car has subframe connectors so the front of the unibody is welded directly to the frame rail that the battery negative is tied to.

Q: Running the leads seperate will have a less chance for noise ... example: tach jumping-rev-limiters timing moving, etc.
A: Yes - agreed ... Mag trigger wires are still in the same old place but all other wires running in that area have been relocated.

Q: Ground - I would run another lead from this point to the passenger head to complete the ground path
A: There is a head-to-head jumper on the firewall side of the cylinder heads. I will move this chassis ground back to the rear of the passenger head and to the frame rail to make the engine compartment look better. Thansk for the suggestion.

Q: This boot should be a 90 degree logo boot
A: My universal black 8.5mm HEI wire kit didn't come with a loose 90 degree MSD labeled boot. I have several other MSD wire kits and my red wire universal does have the MSD logo 90 degree boot that you mention. After carefully examining the 90 MSD boot and the straight boot that I have installed, I don't see a disctinct (insulation) advantage to running the 90 degree MSD boot. And running a 90 degree boot at the coil connection makes for a less than direct wire path to the center post of the distributor. I would need to rotate the coil by 90 degrees to accomodate a 90 degree boot. The coil mounting points are NOT square so it's not a simple matter of just rotating the coil 90 degres and bolting it back up. And I have probably 20+ hour into making that bracket out of a solid chunk of aluminum using my drill press, hacksaw, belt sander and files (I've since purchased a small milling machine for my garage). You should have mentioned this befoe I started making that coil mount bracket! What do I give up by keeping the straight connecter as shown? Attached pic shows a bit of the coil mount bracket ... it clamps directly to the distributor shaft and locates the coil as close to the cap center post as possible. Once the timing is set, the coil mount is rotated to the point where it rests against the manifold so a high G launch wouldn't try to shift the timing.

Q: Running all the leads (magnetic pickup and coil leads) together will create a "noise" problem.
A: These wires have been rerouted ... the mag trigger wire runs from the Digital 6+ to the distributor and there are no other leads running parallel. The nearest wire is now under the manifold (biased towards the driver's side).

Q: Pink for Nitrous Retard on 6520
A: Yes, noted. I'll tie this into the solenoid activation circuit when I get around to finishing off the nitrous system plumbing and wiring.

Q: Are you using a Hobbs Switch on the supply fuel for the Nitrous?
A: The only Hobbs I currently have installed makes sure the electric fuel pumps ony run when there is oil pressure. I will add one to the fuel supply line to make sure that the nitrous solenoids can only activate when there is fuel pressure. Armed + Fuel Pressure + clutch engaged + RPM Window switch + WOT Throttle switch = solenoids energized and pink timing retard activated. I wonder if all that will work on the first shot

************************************************** ************

EDIS-8: Yes I would plan to use the MSD 8241 4-post coils ... Except that these coils use that hard to find lock-on connector. And yes, I know that you make a 8 cylinder universal set ... but it only comes in red. I prefer black wires. I might just have to build up a black engine so that red wires would look good (just kidding). I figure that since my first upgrade from the Ford OEM system would be coils, I would switch to coilpacks with HEI style coil boots. I was considering your part# 8239 but it's only 36K volts. But this was for a Dodge (Neon) so it stays within my brand preference. I also considered part# 8229 which is much like 8239. Part# 8224 looks interesting and has 40K volts but it's only a two-post. I might have trouble squeezing four of these into a small space. 8240 also looked interesting but it didn't look like it was rated for long-duration (street) usage ... and it has the goofy lock-on coil terminal ends. What would you run for a coil on a EDIS 8 system with the requirement that it be a 4-post and have HEI style ends?

OK - thanks in advance for any analysis and reply.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:50 AM
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msdtech1955 msdtech1955 is offline
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Quote:
Q: This boot should be a 90 degree logo boot
A: My universal black 8.5mm HEI wire kit didn't come with a loose 90 degree MSD labeled boot. I have several other MSD wire kits and my red wire universal does have the MSD logo 90 degree boot that you mention. After carefully examining the 90 MSD boot and the straight boot that I have installed, I don't see a disctinct (insulation) advantage to running the 90 degree MSD boot. And running a 90 degree boot at the coil connection makes for a less than direct wire path to the center post of the distributor. I would need to rotate the coil by 90 degrees to accomodate a 90 degree boot. The coil mounting points are NOT square so it's not a simple matter of just rotating the coil 90 degres and bolting it back up. And I have probably 20+ hour into making that bracket out of a solid chunk of aluminum using my drill press, hacksaw, belt sander and files (I've since purchased a small milling machine for my garage). You should have mentioned this befoe I started making that coil mount bracket! What do I give up by keeping the straight connecter as shown? Attached pic shows a bit of the coil mount bracket ... it clamps directly to the distributor shaft and locates the coil as close to the cap center post as possible. Once the timing is set, the coil mount is rotated to the point where it rests against the manifold so a high G launch wouldn't try to shift the timing
run the boot, but i sent you (snail mail) out some wire ,terminals,and boots --plus a tech book
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