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View Full Version : 6530 Hard Starting & Start Retard issues


14BFF
09-06-2010, 02:33 AM
Hello,

I have a starting issue with MSD 6530 box

motor is 454 BBC with around 9.5 CR
locked HEI distributor (big cap) @ 40 degrees initial advance
the run retard curve is designed to pull 25 degrees as start retard until it reaches 650RPM then it will ramp until around 32 total advance @ 3200 rpm

it will start fine when it is cold but when it is hot it will be very hard to turn and it will kickback sometimes causing the starter to grind and eventually fails

I am using GM small gear reduction starter ( from late 90s Vortec BBC ) which was working fine with MSD-6AL and HEI with initial advance around 18

is the hard start and kick-back because the box is not retarding correctly as I've read in other posts (units before April 2010) ?
http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15087&highlight=6530
I remember that I've bought it on Nov 2009
http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14459&highlight=6530

please let me know how can we troubleshoot this problem ?

Ahmed,

BensRat
09-08-2010, 08:37 AM
Are u running a starter relay? I too run a start retard. I have a 454 camaro that i had similar issue, but mine was cause of the relay failing.

14BFF
09-20-2010, 06:10 AM
no I don't use the relay
it is connected in the stock way

MSD support !
where are you :confused1:

msdtech1955
09-21-2010, 12:25 PM
was the unit updated ? could you post a screen shot of your curve.

14BFF
09-26-2010, 02:33 AM
was the unit updated ? could you post a screen shot of your curve.

no it was not updated
I will post the curve ASAP

msdtech1955
09-27-2010, 03:09 PM
great .:thumbup1:

14BFF
10-01-2010, 03:22 PM
hello,

please find a snapshot of the running retard curve and the main window in the attachments
I've also attached the configuration file

please note that the initial timing is set @ around 40 degrees
I couldn't start the engine because the starter died when the motor kick-backed last time

my apology for the delay

thanks,
Ahmed

msdtech1955
10-05-2010, 10:49 AM
what rpm does the graph start at ? is it 500 or 800 rpm's ?

14BFF
10-05-2010, 11:09 PM
what rpm does the graph start at ? is it 500 or 800 rpm's ?

it starts at around 350 RPMs

brianj5600
10-07-2010, 11:09 AM
I had trouble with consistent idle when I first started using my 6530. My chart looked similar. With timing changing around the target idle rpm on my carbed engine, idle was not consistent. I leave my start retard the same until about 300rpm above my idle and now it hits the mark every time.

14BFF
10-12-2010, 09:10 AM
msdtech1955

any updates ?

14BFF
10-17-2010, 03:15 AM
:confused1:

14BFF
10-18-2010, 11:57 PM
ttt










.

msdtech1955
10-21-2010, 09:51 AM
i would try moving the line to zero and work my way up.. instead of the 350 rpm starting point you have now.

14BFF
10-23-2010, 01:25 AM
the start retard starts from 0 and it decrease starting from 350
please look at the curve carefully

PDM160
10-25-2010, 07:43 PM
I got mine 6530 in Jan. 2010 and I am having starting issues as well. I think we need the update, but I am not 100%.

14BFF
10-26-2010, 01:00 AM
I got mine 6530 in Jan. 2010 and I am having starting issues as well. I think we need the update, but I am not 100%.

I wonder why MSD technical support don't reply here or even to technical questions submitted on their website !

they need to confirm if we need the update or not
the way they are treating this issue is not acceptable :bored:

PDM160
10-26-2010, 05:37 PM
This is the best help I have from MSD

"there was un update done to the software on these units. what was happening was that the box was NOT retarding timing initially and was trying to start the engine with your total timing. this would put a large load on the started causing it to kickback. You will need to send the unit in so we can do the update, IT IS BEST IF YOU CALL US TO GET A REPAIR NUMBER I can get this unit in and out in one day. but if you choose not to call then it may take up to 1.5 months coming in from Austrailia. let me know what your outcome will be. Edgar ext 2234"

Not clear which 6530s have the issue, but I assume they mean ones before April.

I will call that number when I get a chance (it is a bit of a pain for me with time zones as I'm in Australia) and hopefully I sort the issue. Not real keen on having to send the unit overseas to get fixed as I use the car everyday and it won't go at all without it (at least it runs now, it just has no advance).

fairlaner
12-17-2010, 01:28 PM
I have been having exactly the same problems with my new 6530 which i bought from summit on Nov 21st, I called MSD first and they said to call Summit and get them to send me a new one. (this was all before i had read this forum).
I called Summit and they indeed sent me a new one and i returned the old one.(had to lay out another $348)
I then installed the new one and what do you know i had the same fricking problems.
At this point i found this forum and discovered that 6530's had issues, this morning i called Edgar at MSD and he told me where to check the date on the unit and sure enough mine was made in April, he got me an RMA and my unit is now winging it's way to El Paso.
The biggest problem here as i see it is Summit, they seem to be selling "out of date" units, units that do not funtion properly and are giving MSD a bad name.
Summit in there defense are sending me a gift certificate to cover the cost of my shipping to MSD but my car is still down for a week or more......

OK rant over, hopefully this will fix the problem.

Richard.

14BFF
12-20-2010, 12:43 AM
I have been having exactly the same problems with my new 6530 which i bought from summit on Nov 21st, I called MSD first and they said to call Summit and get them to send me a new one. (this was all before i had read this forum).
I called Summit and they indeed sent me a new one and i returned the old one.(had to lay out another $348)
I then installed the new one and what do you know i had the same fricking problems.
At this point i found this forum and discovered that 6530's had issues, this morning i called Edgar at MSD and he told me where to check the date on the unit and sure enough mine was made in April, he got me an RMA and my unit is now winging it's way to El Paso.
The biggest problem here as i see it is Summit, they seem to be selling "out of date" units, units that do not funtion properly and are giving MSD a bad name.
Summit in there defense are sending me a gift certificate to cover the cost of my shipping to MSD but my car is still down for a week or more......

OK rant over, hopefully this will fix the problem.

Richard.

please update me after installing the new unit

fairlaner
12-20-2010, 09:38 AM
Will do.

R

fairlaner
01-05-2011, 01:11 PM
I got the replacement unit form MSD last week and it has a Dec date on it and it works just like it is supposed to.

Thanks Guys.

Richard

14BFF
01-07-2011, 02:11 AM
I got the replacement unit form MSD last week and it has a Dec date on it and it works just like it is supposed to.

Thanks Guys.

Richard

Richard,

did they replace the unit or upgrade it ?
my unit arrived at MSD on 1/3/2011 I hope they send it back soon

thanks a lot,
Ahmed

msdtech1955
01-07-2011, 08:46 AM
may 2010 all the units had that start update.

heres how to check you box if it has the update :

hook up your laptop, ignition on , look at the retard gauge
if it moves it is updated ... it not ..and stays at zero ...then it was an older unit that needs the update.

14BFF
01-12-2011, 02:03 AM
I received my unit yesterday
I will update you ASAP

BensRat
01-13-2011, 02:25 PM
may 2010 all the units had that start update.

heres how to check you box if it has the update :

hook up your laptop, ignition on , look at the retard gauge
if it moves it is updated ... it not ..and stays at zero ...then it was an older unit that needs the update.

Just want to verify...the retard gauge should move even though the car isnt running...just in the on position? Also, will move regardless of the plot used?

harringtondl
02-14-2011, 05:01 PM
I bought a complete MSD unit from Summit just before the holidays, including 6530 ignition controller, distributor, coil and MAP sensor, and finally have it on the car. I'm not yet running the 6530 retard curves .. they are all at the zero default and I am still running the centrifugal advance in my 8517 billet distributor. That's what 12 inches of snow here and 0 degrees temperature will do to car projects. Most have to wait until spring! I do have the two desired retard curves programmed on my computer (but not yet installed on the 6530 box) that have boost retard, start retard, speed advance, vacuum advance and high rpm retard built in. I have an 8:71 supercharger and a 2-bar MAP sensor.
Here is my question ... I am a little concerned in reading the posts in this thread. My new 6530 unit manufacturing date is June 1, 2010. Is this one of the units that may be suspected of not retarding properly? What is the date range of the suspected units?

Dave Harrington; Troy, Michigan